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Talk:Alice Longbottom
Prewett It isn't stated anywhere in the series that Alice was a Prewett. ~anonymous passerby —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 147.124.152.205 (talk • ) }| }|}}. :I'm not sure where that's from, I think its from an interview. I'll look into it. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 23:06, 6 April 2008 (UTC) Error In Relatives Section Algie Longbottom is not Alice's uncle-in-law as an uncle-in-law is the husband of a blood related aunt.--Seán Travers 18:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)Seán Travers, 19:49, 11 April 2008. Actually, that's wrong; he is an uncle-in-law. An uncle-in-law would be the uncle of her husband, which Algie is. --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 07:05, May 20, 2014 (UTC) Prewett? Alice's last name isn't mentioned. I can't find it anywhere but here that her last name is Prewett, if it is (which I highly doubt) could someone link the actual source. But it's pretty implausible that Alice was a Prewett since Ginny had Prewett blood, then so would Neville, and in GOF, who would honestly take a cousin to the Yule Ball? Honestly, even Neville wouldn't be that desperate. So I think Prewett should be removed until a reliable and listed source appears. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.61.66.160 (talk • ) }| }|}}. :I think its mentioned that she is the cousin of Molly, or something like that. I'm not sure where. CavalierOne added that information (as far as I know). I'll ask him about it when I get a chance. -- DarkJedi613 (Talk) 23:36, 18 May 2008 (UTC) Just to mention it is possible for Alice's last name to be Prewett because all pure bloods are related to each other.-- 03:06, 17 August 2009 (UTC) :Possible? Yes. Proven? No. - Nick O'Demus 05:35, 17 August 2009 (UTC) Just an idle visitor with an eidetic memory here, but there is no mention, at any point in any of the novels about Alice's parentage. The only thing that we know for sure is that her parents were each a witch and wizard, as Neville is considered to be pure-blooded. If Alice were a pure-blood, then she might be related to the Prewetts I guess, but it's pure speculation. The line I think that Dark Jedi613 is thinking of is in OotP, where Sirius and Harry are looking at the family tree and Sirius mentions that he thinks that Molly is a cousin by marriage. The simplest way to explain that would be if she were the niece of Ignatius Prewett and Lucretia Prewett(Black). Neville's (and his parents') possible relationship to the Black family are never mentioned. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.21.150.88 (talk • ) }| }|}}. Article´s name? Why is the article called Alice Prewett? I think that it ´should be Alice Longbottom.--Rodolphus 11:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC) Actor who Plays Alice longbottom In the Order of the Phoenix we see a picture of Alice longbottom and Frank, who is the actor that is Alice in that picture? The Unbeholden 18:20, 8 November 2008 (UTC) Harry granger 19:41, February 21, 2010 (UTC) I'm not sure, but I saw this page. There is mentioned that Lisa Wood should be the actress. It's an autograph page, http://www.starwarsautographcollecting.com/Autographs/HarryPotter/HarryPotterAutographTemplate.html Not an Auror While rereading GoF I found it odd in Ch 30 that Barty Crouch Jr and others are accused of "capturing an Auror - Frank Longbottom - and subjecting him to the Cruciatus Curse..." and "using the Cruciatus Curse on Longbottom's wife, when he would not give you information." Later Dumbledore said "His father, Frank, was an Auror just like Professor Moody. He and his wife were tortured..." This implies that while Frank was an Auror, Alice was not. Any information out there that would dispute this interpretation? Mr Norrell 08:23, January 27, 2010 (UTC) Neville´s grandmother refers to Neville´s parents as "Aurors" when they are at St. Mungos I think. --Rodolphus 13:06, January 27, 2010 (UTC) :Yup. - Nick O'Demus 13:28, January 27, 2010 (UTC) ::Ah, so it's either evidence of sexism on the characters' parts or of an author's revision in a sequel. The wording I noted really seemed odd, hence my question. Mr Norrell 07:01, January 30, 2010 (UTC) ::It could also be that both Frank and Alice were Aurors, then Alice retired from official Auror work for at least the time being when Neville was born so that she could care for him while he was little. That way both Frank and Alice would have been Aurors, but at the time of the trial, it would make sense to refer to only Frank as an Auror. -Jacqueline ::Jacqueline that would make a bunch of sense- Joe Wrong Info The information stating that Neville was a few months old when Alice was tortured is wrong. The torture of Alice and Frank occurred AFTER the war had ended and Harry was over a year old at the time. Since Neville's birthday is very close to Harry's, he would be over a year old as well. Alice Longbottom's maiden name I have not been able to find the article, but I remember one of the interviews with JKR after Deathly Hallows was released, she gave Alice's maiden name as Fortescue. I am positive of this, and as she has mentioned in several of her last talks, Florean Fortescue's capture and death was originally significant to the Elder Wand plot, but she cut it from the book. She has said the backstory would be in her Encyclopedia, and The fact Alice was a Fortescue is probably also important to this storyline. :If you can find a link to that interview, then that info can be added. - 02:09, July 12, 2010 (UTC) wasn't It Molly weasly that has the maiden name Prewett? 12:13, February 4, 2013 (UTC) :It's true, the maiden name of Molly Weasley is Prewett, the maiden name of Alice Longbottom is unknown as long as there is no source that her maiden name is also Prewett. [[User:Harry granger| Harry granger ]][[User talk:Harry granger| ' Talk ']] 14:52, February 4, 2013 (UTC) I thought, or heard Alice Longbottoms' Maiden name (Surname) was 'Lightwood'. But then again so many people thought she might be Alice Prewett TeamTwilight468 (talk) 23:28, February 13, 2013 (UTC) @TeamTwilight468 , Lightwood is a surname from an entirely different fandom! Are you sure about this?- Demi-Shadowhunter-God34 Auror, Redux [http://www.pottermore.com/en/book4/chapter30/moment1/mr-mrs-longbottom The entry on Pottermore for Mr and Mrs Longbottom] states that Frank was an Auror, that he was captured and tortured, and that when he failed to provide any information they went after his wife Alice, who also did not know anything. Never does it mention that Alice was an Auror. The only evidence we have that Alice was an Auror after all is Augusta saying so in Order of the Phoenix. Does the statement in Pottermore, particularly in conjunction with the statement in Goblet of Fire override what Augusta says of her daughter-in-law in Order of the Phoenix, or no? But wait ... doesn't Dumbledore say Alice was an Auror? So confused here. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 01:46, July 31, 2014 (UTC) :Bumping? Could someone please explain? --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 21:57, August 5, 2014 (UTC) Bellatrix confirms it: she describes Neville as "the son of the Aurors" and, given that she tortured them, she would know. --HarryPotterRules1 (talk) 22:15, August 11, 2017 (UTC) So does Augusta Longbottom in book five. As, I believe, does Dumbledore. Maester Martin (talk) 14:31, April 10, 2019 (UTC) Hogwarts? The article states that Alice attended Hogwarts. I don't recall where this was revealed. It would be handy if this information could be cited appropriately to resolve confusion. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 04:29, July 29, 2017 (UTC) : She's an Auror. She went to Hogwarts, because otherwise, she wouldn't have the cridentials necessary to become one. And no number of times Seth or Ironyak1 pulls up the "SPECULATION!" card is going to change that. Maester Martin (talk) 21:56, April 8, 2019 (UTC) :: Going to Hogwarts School is not the only way to become an Auror. You don't have to be English / Welsh / Scottish / Irish to be an Auror. I brought up America because they have many Aurors. Do they have to be educated at Hogwarts School rather than Ilvermorny School? Look at Chadwick Boot, an Ilvermorny educated Auror who was able to work with the Ministry of Magic. :: It's possible to get those credentials without going to Hogwarts School specifically. So no, you don't know where Alice came from and what school she went to, and how she ended up working at the Ministry. The article should state facts. Supposition / inferring is not the same as conclusively proven facts that has actual canon words to support it. Find the words that state "you have to be Hogwarts educated to get the credentials necessary to be an Auror". Harry attended Hogwarts and was told that was what he had to achieve, but not everyone in the whole world. - Kates39 (talk) 22:44, April 8, 2019 (UTC) : Going to Hogwarts School is not the only way to become an Auror. ... I brought up America because they have many Aurors : Yes, and those Aurors belong to the wizarding community of America, not the wizarding community of Great Britain, and they have their own set of cridentials necessary to become an Auror distinct from becoming an Auror in Great Britain. In Great Britain, you have to get high mark on at least five N.E.W.T.s. : Look at Chadwick Boot, an Ilvermorny educated Auror who was able to work with the Ministry of Magic. ''' : He wasn't worknig for the Ministry, and he wasn't an Auror. He was a so-called "Auror-for-hire", meaning he was a bounty hunter. Also, he didn't work ''for ''the Ministry, he worked ''with ''the Ministry, in the sense that he brought a British criminal from somewhere overseas back to the Ministry to stand trail. : '''So no, you don't know where Alice came from and what school she went to, and how she ended up working at the Ministry. : Yes I do. She went to Hogwarts and she got at least five N.E.W.T.s, or she wouldn't have qualified for the training. : The article should state facts. : I agree, which is why I undid your edit. : Supposition / inferring is not the same as conclusively proven facts that has actual canon words to support it. : I'm not appealing to "supposition", I am appealing to the set-in-stone recquirements to join the Auror Office as described by McGonagall in book five. : Find the words that state "you have to be Hogwarts educated to get the credentials necessary to be an Auror". : Tell me where it is stated that the recquired cridentials have been established to be obtainable other than Hogwarts? With all due respect, this seems excessively speculative. : Harry attended Hogwarts and was told that was what he had to achieve, but not everyone in the whole world. ' : We are told what everyone else in the entirety of ''Great Britain ''has to do to become an Auror. Excluding Harry, Ron, Neville and any other student who survived the Battle of Hogwarts and wanted to join because Kingsley made a temporary exception to them because there were little to no Aurors left alive after Voldemort's coup save from Dawlish, a luxury not commonly afforded to every Tom, Dick and Harry that wants to join. Maester Martin (talk) 23:52, April 8, 2019 (UTC) :: I have not put what you call "excessively speculative" in the article because I recognise that it's speculation. There is no need to put it in, because nothing is personally and conclusively known about her education. J.K. Rowling has never mentioned it. I am not the only editor who feels this way about Alice's education. Rather than wonder why so many people keep saying "speculation" to you, your just determined that everyone else has to be wrong. :: Your basically saying that in order to be an Auror at the Ministry of Magic and in Great Britain, you have to be from England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. No-one else can work there. An American, French, German etc. has not even been educated good enough in comparison to the Hogwarts educated. It's not acceptable. To say that Alice can only be English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish because she worked in Britain is "excessively speculative" too. That's absurd. I keep my speculation out of the article. I keep it neutral from personal inferring. You should do the same. :: You give supposition based upon the fact that Harry was told he had to achieve five grades at careers advice, and that she worked in Great Britain. That's your evidence. Except, Harry was of course attending Hogwarts and that was the test that he had to take. That is simply the advice he needed. That does not conclusively prove that Alice had to go to the same school if she ever wanted to be an Auror in Britain. It's not what "everyone else in the entirety of Great Britain" had to do. It's just saying what those attending Hogwarts had to do. - Kates39 (talk) 10:18, April 9, 2019 (UTC) : :'I have not put what you call "excessively speculative" in the article because I recognise that it's speculation. ' : :Oh sorry, I didn't mean to imply you did, I merely noted it as a flaw in your argument. ^^' : :'There is no need to put it in, because nothing is personally and conclusively known about her education. : :Other than her seven years at Hogwarts and impressive score on her N.E.W.T.s, you mean? : :J.K. Rowling has never mentioned it. : :Why should she have to, though? She gave us the concept what an Auror is, she told us the recquirements for becoming one, and she said Alice was an Auror. Some things just goes without saying. : :Rather than wonder why so many people keep saying "speculation" to you, your just determined that everyone else has to be wrong. : :I would hardly call you, Ironyak1 and Seth "all". That said, I would never have become so bent on these things if there weren't some merit to my points found within canon. : :Your basically saying that in order to be an Auror at the Ministry of Magic and in Great Britain, you have to be from England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. No-one else can work there. ' : :I am basically saying that N.E.W.T.s are recquired to be an Auror. Could an Auror at MACUSA move to England and transfer to the Auror Office? Possibly. Would their academic cridentials from Ilvermorny be held as valid relating to the results necessary to become an Auror in Britain? Who knows. Regardless, the fact of the matter is that until such time that we see an example of a foreign Auror become a British one and see for ourselves what sort of training/education needed, if any, for them to join, it's a non-sequitur. We only have McGonagall to go on. : :'An American, French, German etc. has not even been educated good enough in comparison to the Hogwarts educated. : :It's not a question of "good enough", it's not the quality of education that's relevant here. It is a matter of different countries, different priorities and standards. A fully-fledged doctor of medicine in one country would find his licence worthless in some other countries because of differences between his education and those of local doctors, for example. : :It's not acceptable. To say that Alice can only be English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish because she worked in Britain is "excessively speculative" too. : :It would have been, had she held literally any other job of unkonwn recquirements that concivably could have been obtainable with a different magical eduation. The Auror Office, however, has never been established as such. : :I keep it neutral from personal inferring. You should do the same. : :I would not have stuck with any inference ob my part if the conclusion weren't backed up by canon. : :You give supposition based upon the fact that Harry was told he had to achieve five grades at careers advice, and that she worked in Great Britain. : :It's not a supposition, it's a rigid finger pointed at established lore. : :Except, Harry was of course attending Hogwarts and that was the test that he had to take. That is simply the advice he needed. : :Which says nothing about Alice, and the circumstances during which he ''became an Auror was very specific and unique to the time and place in question because or the rammifications of a DE-controlled Ministry. Your supposition seem to be that any or all Aurors predating this particular set of circumstances was offered the same luxury, which has never been established to be the case. : :'That does not conclusively prove that Alice had to go to the same school if she ever wanted to be an Auror in Britain. It's not what "everyone else in the entirety of Great Britain" had to do. It's just saying what those attending Hogwarts had to do.' : :Where in canon has that been established, exatctly? Maester Martin (talk) 01:07, April 10, 2019 (UTC) As always, these "conversations" with Maester Martin are largely pointless considering: * There are no direct reference for your edits * You refuse to listen to every other editor on these matters Simply put, what was told to Harry as the requirements to be an Auror may or may not have been in place during Alice's time (and they aren't even strict universal requirements as they weren't applied to Harry and others who, like Alice, fought Voldemort's rise to power). Unless you have a reference that clearly states Alice attended Hogwarts, any statement to this regard is speculation and conjecture (yet again). --Ironyak1 (talk) 15:49, April 10, 2019 (UTC) : Then again, whenever I ''do ''make a decent point, the validity of it is disregarded for arbitrary reasons. *Not true. Again: ''Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 29 (Careers Advice). *Not always, but yes, I tend to reject any conclusion that conflict with established canon. Why shouldn't I? : No, it isn't. The circumstances around the hiring of Harry, Ron and Neville was unique to the aftermath of the death of Voldemort. It was done because, and only because, that more or less all ''Aurors except Dawlish had been killed when the Ministry came under the control of the Death Eaters. You're ignoring the fact that following the Battle of Howarts, their master was dead and they had suffered a crushing defeat. They didn't suffer a setback, like they did in the Department of Mysteries, they were ''beaten. Kingsley Shacklebolt took the initiative to forego the usual training program exclusively ''to those who survived the final battle because they were bravely and skillfully holding their own against terrible odds yet remained unwaveringly loyal, and thus had proven themselves to be worthy of the title of Auror. This has not been established to be the case any other time in canon, and it ''could not ''have been the case. The reason Aurors are trained in the first place, after all, is to prepare them for what they were going to be up against, and if every Tom, Dick and Harry got the same luxury, that'd be like pushing unqualified civilians who has never held a firearm in their lives into military uniforms and knowingly sent them to their death against a highly trained, seasoned and battle-hardened army - ''while ''there was a different option right there in front of them. In the First WW, it was open warfare with the enemy having the upper hand throuhout, whereas Harry, Ron and Neville were doing a cleanup job and dealing with adversaries at a ''huge ''disadvantage ''after ''the real danger had passed. : For any Minister for Magic to permit just anyone to become an Auror without the proper training like Harry were, would have recquired them to intentionally endanger the wizarding community of Great Britain even more than Fudge did by ignoring Voldemort's return in book five, since they a) knew of Voldemort and the threat he posed and b) didn't care enough to ''be bothered to see to it witches and wizards qualified to undergo an already established training program to equip them to contain the situation as best they could because - what, laziness? : To quote Seth: That which can be asserted without evidence, can be ignored without evidence, and right now, neither of you have any sort of proof for your "maybes". There is one ''and ''only one established way of becoming an Auror before and after Harry's employment, and that is that people go to Hogwarts and pass five N.E.W.T.s. To be quite honest, I find it rather annoying that I cannot add ''something because you ''claim ''it's done based on conjecture and/or speculation, but you ''remove things that's demonstrably based on conjecture and/or speculation, and for some ''reason, ''that's ''okay. Why? Made up scenarios that you subjectively regard as "may or may not have beens" does not, actually, negate canon, Ironyak1. Maester Martin (talk) 15:25, April 10, 2019 (UTC) ::Whatever I removed had no source or reference and therefore is not shown to be a fact from canon. The requirements to become an auror given to Harry aren't universal, iron-clad laws, as shown immediately by how Harry and others became an auror. We know that special rules were put in place for aurors by the Ministry during Voldemort's first rise to power - it is possible this could include lessening requirements, hiring outside help, etc. ::Trying to take the one explanation of the hiring requirements for aurors in the mid-1990s and say that it must apply to every auror ever in the history of the British Ministry, while ignoring the myriad of possible exceptions like those directly given by canon, is presuming to know far more than we do in order to make inferences. ::Another extensive explaination and rationale about how all other editors are wrong again isn't going to change this situation - only a reference from canon that states Alice attended Hogwarts will. Thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 16:15, April 10, 2019 (UTC) : '''Whatever I removed had no source or reference and therefore is not shown to be a fact from canon.' : Fine. I'll re-add it and add a reference, then shall I? : The requirements to become an auror given to Harry aren't universal, iron-clad laws, as shown immediately by how Harry and others became an auror. : Actually, they are, where British Aurors are concerned. Harry and Co was the only an exception due to a ridiculously specific set of circumstances, as explained above. That's kind of why the Auror Office have ''so strict recquirements, because they are strictly ''necessary and the recquirements necessarily ''must be met. : '''We know that special rules were put in place for aurors by the Ministry during Voldemort's first rise to power - it is possible this could include lessening requirements, hiring outside help, etc.' : They could not ''and ''would not lessen the recquirements in a time when the magical community's greatest time of need. And we know they hired outside help, such as Lyall Lupin and also in the past, namely Grimmson, however, neither of them were Aurors. : This is what have been established to be the recquirements to join the Auror Office: # Graduate from Hogwarts with at least five N.E.W.T.s with nothing below "Exceeds Expectations". #Undergo a series of personality and aptitude tests. #If you pass them, undergo their training program.. #4) Join them afterwards. : Any alternative way of becoming a British Auror you can think up that's not established in canon is speculation and hence invalid by default as a justifcation for removing information. Anything else would be akin to remove things because of an unwritten fanfiction. : Trying to take the one explanation of the hiring requirements for aurors in the mid-1990s and say that it must apply to every auror ever in the history of the British Ministry, while ignoring the myriad of possible exceptions like those directly given by canon, is presuming to know far more than we do in order to make inferences. : No it isn't. The first Auror recruitment program was established by''' Minister Eldritch Diggory some time between 1733 and 1747, It might have been altered and improved, but it's been one. Also, "possible exceptions" are worthless, until Rowling states otherwise. : '''Another extensive explaination and rationale about how all other editors are wrong again isn't going to change this situation - only a reference from canon that states Alice attended Hogwarts will. : Alice was an Auror. Aurors must earn five N.E.W.T.s. N.E.W:T.s has only been established to be obtainable at Hogwarts. Why is this so difficult for you? Maester Martin (talk) 22:41, April 10, 2019 (UTC)